[20:49:47] Ina Centaur: (hi cody)
[20:49:54] Cody Eilde: Hello
[20:51:05] Ina Centaur: she believes that people would see the good in things
[20:51:10] Ina Centaur: the wrong of their ways
[20:51:53] Grace McDunnough: I’m not so sure of that .. I think she believes that whatever thier beliefs, she can bear the responsibility of the collective - which of course, she cannot
[20:52:07] Grace McDunnough: They are neither competent nor motivated ..
[20:52:16] Grace McDunnough: An argument some would make of “slaves”
[20:52:47] Grace McDunnough: But .. I think I’ve strayed past Ch 4 ;-/
[20:52:48] Ina Centaur: she bears the responsibility because someone has to
[20:53:09] Harman Mayo: very few people are actually competent
[20:53:17] Ina Centaur: and fewer are motivated
[20:53:33] Ina Centaur: to them.. life is drudgery, and they are stuck in it but too chicken to quit it
[20:53:36] Harman Mayo: witness the running joke abiut VCRs that blinked 12:00
[20:54:07] Ina Centaur: .. .and so they basically gather around biatching about things they haven’t the facts for… and so we have politics!
[20:54:16] Ina Centaur: (that was in parentheses)
[20:54:16] Grace McDunnough: And ..if you are to succeed .. to run a RR .. you do not merely accept that and trust that by your will you can achieve greatness
[20:54:53] Ina Centaur: oh, grace, i think Dagny has to believe that there are competents out there, and that people are essentially good… despite all she sees
[20:55:02] Ina Centaur: otherwise, she would have just quit like Conway
[20:55:11] Ina Centaur: why fight, when there’s nothing to fight for?
[20:55:12] Grace McDunnough: I think she does believe that .. however she is mired in the opposite
[20:55:16] Harman Mayo: but charisma has lead many to accomplish great things
[20:55:33] Grace McDunnough: Charisma is arguably a skill
[20:55:54] Ina Centaur: charisma in dagnY? o_O
[20:56:03] Grace McDunnough: No .. certainly not LOL
[20:56:10] Ina Centaur: lol
[20:56:19] Harman Mayo: true - Hitler was very carismatic, so I’ll concede it to be a skill
[20:56:20] Ina Centaur: in james? o_O
[20:56:38] Ina Centaur: (yes, and didn’t Hitler have brown eyes? o_O )
[20:56:43] Grace McDunnough: James has a touch of charisma
[20:56:53] Grace McDunnough: We hate him for it
[20:57:06] Ina Centaur: yes, why do we hate james?
[20:57:32] Harman Mayo: because he’s such a waste of good oxygen
[20:57:51] Ina Centaur: oh yes he’s bad CO02 all right
[20:57:53] Jordana McMahon: he’s underhanded, sleazy, sneeky
[20:58:14] Ina Centaur: (hi tory!)
[20:58:24] Grace McDunnough: He’s an influencer .. and powerful as a result in his own way
[20:58:25] ToryLynn Writer: (hey ina.. winding down?)
[20:58:27] Grace McDunnough: Hey Tory
[20:58:48] Ina Centaur: (still going… i think… we got totally sidetracked with pyramids earlier >.<)
[20:58:49] Grace McDunnough: We’ll be here late, we have to dismantle the pyramids
[20:59:04] ToryLynn Writer: ((Ok.. on my way to the blog now))
[21:00:05] ToryLynn Writer: ((you changed the website! ))
[21:00:32] Ina Centaur: (( ? ))
[21:01:00] Grace McDunnough: Oh .. I get to use the quote you chose Ina … (55) ?She took positions of responsibility because there was no one else to take them? At every step of her rise, she did the work long before she was granted th title. It was like advancing through empty rooms. Nobody opposed her, yet nobody approved of her progress.?
[21:01:50] Grace McDunnough: So .. hard work gets you promoted only so far. Now, we are at the level of influence and “movers”
[21:02:09] Grace McDunnough: Influencers, at this point have more power than hard workers
[21:02:52] Ina Centaur: yes, but the Influencers in Atlas Shrugged can actually do the work of the hard workers…
[21:03:10] Grace McDunnough: Can you expound?
[21:03:55] Ina Centaur: this wasn’t mentioned yet about Nat… but when his entire team quit due to political reason, he ended up putting his bridge together himself, and devises a way to make his “immovable motive” work out
[21:04:08] Ina Centaur: (literally, on his hands and knees with hammer in hand)
[21:04:09] Grace McDunnough: You are cheating
[21:04:10] ToryLynn Writer: ((I still stand by my statement I made on this chapter last night))
[21:04:21] Grace McDunnough: It’s a lousy chapter, I agree
[21:04:28] Ina Centaur: ((yes Anti-Bad-Dog is NO FAIR NO FAIR!))
[21:04:34] Grace McDunnough: LOL
[21:04:44] Ina Centaur: i wonder if Rand meant for this to be a particular super-partsy-chapter
[21:05:09] Ina Centaur: and the title really doesn’t fit into each individual part… in previous chapter, the title sort of just reveberates through the entire chapter
[21:05:34] Ina Centaur: i guess it’s necessary to build suspense and conflict to see just what the movers have to go against
[21:05:47] Ina Centaur: and to see the degree of “immovability” is required
[21:05:53] Nakaima Oh: But the chapter does end with her just telling us what the chap title means.
[21:06:24] Ina Centaur: “Dagny… whatever we are, it’s we who move the world, and it’s we who’ll pull it through.”
[21:06:38] Nakaima Oh: exactly
[21:06:40] Ina Centaur: oh btw, what do you think of Rearden’s comment that D
[21:07:19] Grace McDunnough: they are the Anti-Paldins?
[21:07:23] Grace McDunnough: /me laughs
[21:07:34] Ina Centaur: >.<
[21:07:35] Nakaima Oh: I think it’s that whole bit of rand not wanting yhou think they are the establishment
[21:08:04] Ina Centaur: Dagny seems disturbed by it, but Rearden takes it as obvious fact
[21:08:20] Nakaima Oh: they are supposed to be rebels rather than symobols for the people who really run everytning
[21:08:59] Ina Centaur: “but she felt a vague apprehension which she could not define, the suggestion that there was something of grave consequence in whatever had made him say it, something dangerous to him..”
[21:09:52] Jordana McMahon: it says she was not troubled by this and she was incapable of feeling fundemental guilt
[21:09:58] Ina Centaur: oh, so you think Rand meant the quote to “epitomize” them as underdogs?
[21:10:17] ToryLynn Writer: ((wow.. reviewing the archive.. from Pyramids, to Russia, to Nike ) LOL))
[21:10:28] Grace McDunnough: Heh, Tory
[21:10:50] Ina Centaur: (( yes and to Ina the exploiter-supporter who believes Nike and pyramids shouldn’t be killed >.< ))
[21:11:51] Ina Centaur: yes, but jordana, she seems to detect a ponit of danger…
[21:12:03] Ina Centaur: what sorts of danger do you think might arise from Hank’s comment and open acceptance of being a blackguard?
[21:12:55] ToryLynn Writer: well.. if he admits to being a blackguard, it means that he admits he won’t exactly follow society’s rules
[21:13:19] Ina Centaur: hmm vigilante?
[21:13:23] ToryLynn Writer: he doesn’t have to… he’s an acknowledged blackguard.. which also means he has an inkling they’ll be coming after him next
[21:13:26] Ina Centaur: oh, but he calls Dagny a blackguard too
[21:13:42] Jordana McMahon: is he expressing self doubt
[21:14:13] ToryLynn Writer: maybe he’s inviting her to go against society’s standards.. she already sort of does, as she’s a girl in charge
[21:14:18] Nakaima Oh: Isnt rand setting D up to be “one of us” with that assoc with R
[21:14:37] Ina Centaur: lol that’s funny
[21:14:50] Grace McDunnough: I’m sorry, but I need to turn in … long day
[21:14:59] Ina Centaur: so, i guess you think they will start breaking the law?
[21:14:59] Grace McDunnough: Thanks everyone - g’night
[21:15:08] ToryLynn Writer: night Grace!
[21:15:10] Ina Centaur: (nite grace! )
[21:15:17] Grace McDunnough: /me waves
[21:15:21] Nakaima Oh: bye
[21:15:26] Jordana McMahon: good nite grace thank you
[21:16:29] ToryLynn Writer: he says they’re blackguards because they “havcent any spiritual goals or qualities. All (they’re) after is material things.”
[21:16:30] Nakaima Oh: I think I’m goint to have to go, too, if I can figure how to get off this giant snake or whatever these are we’re sitting on. Thanks Ina and everyone. Great evening.
[21:16:52] ToryLynn Writer: except… that’s not entirely true.. they both care about material gains through honorable methods..
[21:17:06] ToryLynn Writer: hehe.. bagels
[21:17:15] ToryLynn Writer: bye Nakaima
[21:17:17] Jordana McMahon: I’m deserting as well nite all
[21:17:18] Ina Centaur: (lol nite nakaima)
[21:17:23] ToryLynn Writer: /me sighs
[21:17:26] Jordana McMahon: till tomorrow
[21:17:28] Ina Centaur: (… nite jordana)
[21:17:28] ToryLynn Writer: I show up and everybody leaves
[21:17:41] ToryLynn Writer: that’s alright… I can go finish chapter 5
[21:18:02] ToryLynn Writer: sorry I missed tonight
[21:18:12] Ina Centaur: hmm
[21:18:26] Ina Centaur: on material gains through honorable methods
[21:18:36] Ina Centaur: that’s kinda spiritual in itself
[21:18:44] Ina Centaur: possible danger to hank for not seeing it
[21:19:17] ToryLynn Writer: I think he sees it.. I think he just.. doesn’t want to acknowledge it
[21:19:31] ToryLynn Writer: it’s easier to say he’s a blackguard and follow the rules of being that..
[21:19:41] ToryLynn Writer: it is harder to say that he’s honorable and uphold that honor..
[21:20:05] [SLDonate] DarkGlass Tip Bin: Thank you for your donation, ToryLynn Writer!
[21:20:25] Ina Centaur: hehe ty tory o_O
[21:20:42] Ina Centaur: are there rules to being a blackguard?
[21:20:46] ToryLynn Writer: of course..
[21:20:50] Ina Centaur: (hi jack)
[21:20:58] Jack Sondergaard: hi
[21:21:11] Jack Sondergaard: wish I had seen this sooner
[21:21:13] ToryLynn Writer: well.. that’s the issue.. the only rule to being a blackguard is that you don’t have to follow the rules
[21:21:13] Ina Centaur: (xanadu is a nice linux breed)
[21:21:31] Ina Centaur: (we are only on chapter 4 for tonight… so you can still catch up… http://atlasshrugged.inacentaur.com )
[21:22:29] Jack Sondergaard: I’ve listened to the audio book a couple of times
[21:23:02] ToryLynn Writer: it’s a good book
[21:23:17] Ina Centaur: yes, much more readable than the other Russian authors
[21:23:30] Harman Mayo: hehehe
[21:23:31] Ina Centaur: >.<
[21:24:14] ToryLynn Writer: /me laughs
[21:24:20] ToryLynn Writer: I want to be a blackguard
[21:24:35] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:25:06] Ina Centaur: the only rule: no rules!
[21:25:12] Ina Centaur: (then what about the only rule o_O )
[21:25:13] Ina Centaur: hehe
[21:25:21] Ina Centaur: oh btw harman.. do you have another alternative POV for this chapter?
[21:25:39] ToryLynn Writer: Oh, Ina.. you should stop by my place sometime… (and ignore the blantant misuse of prims…) I’ve built a park in my shop
[21:26:16] Ina Centaur: lol /me camera zooms over
[21:26:25] ToryLynn Writer: ooh.. forgot youu can do that
[21:26:32] Ina Centaur: grassy! o_O
[21:26:39] ToryLynn Writer: So, we’re on chapter 4, Jack..reading a chapter a day…
[21:27:24] ToryLynn Writer: yeah, the trees are my favorite bit
[21:27:57] Ina Centaur: hehe
[21:28:03] Ina Centaur: painting in the greeneries
[21:28:18] ToryLynn Writer: I’m missing one of them.. I have to check my bed at home
[21:28:55] Jack Sondergaard: I will have to check it out of the library, I don’t actually own a copy of my own
[21:29:11] Harman Mayo: sorry - my brain is mush tonight
[21:29:19] ToryLynn Writer: /me laughs
[21:29:29] ToryLynn Writer: thats alright.. It’s Saturday
[21:29:36] Ina Centaur: it’s a nice book to own
[21:29:36] Harman Mayo: a 14 hour conference has drained all of my wit, I’m afraid
[21:29:44] Ina Centaur: you can sorta bash your cousin on the head with it
[21:29:46] ToryLynn Writer: wow.14 hour con on what?
[21:29:53] Ina Centaur: or just about anyone else
[21:30:02] Ina Centaur: so it’s also a good weapon to carry in your purse
[21:30:17] ToryLynn Writer: yeah.. I got all jealous of your copy, Ina..and went and bought it.. lots of margin space for notes
[21:30:42] Ina Centaur: mehc margin space in the signet edition?
[21:30:51] Ina Centaur: >.<
[21:30:54] ToryLynn Writer: no, I got the Plume..
[21:30:56] Ina Centaur: dunno 1/4 inch?
[21:30:57] ToryLynn Writer: ginormous book
[21:30:58] Harman Mayo: the conference was on network security
[21:31:04] ToryLynn Writer: this has at least 1/2 inch
[21:31:14] ToryLynn Writer: oooo.. sounds.. incredibly boring.. but Im not into that
[21:31:44] Ina Centaur: yeah network security is messy
[21:31:53] Harman Mayo: i depend on it for my living - so need to keep up
[21:31:58] ToryLynn Writer: yeah, the signet only has a quarter inch.. and I couldn’t deal with that
[21:32:10] ToryLynn Writer: wow.. ever changing job
[21:32:17] Harman Mayo: yep
[21:32:21] ToryLynn Writer: and also high stress, I would imagine
[21:32:31] Harman Mayo: not really
[21:32:50] Harman Mayo: I’m not a tech - I’m an owner
[21:33:11] ToryLynn Writer: So, according to me, Dagny has at the very least 3 guys she can count as nearly suitors, if I don’t coung Frisco
[21:33:20] ToryLynn Writer: I like that
[21:33:25] Ina Centaur: lol!
[21:33:31] Ina Centaur: hmm which 3?
[21:33:38] Harman Mayo: (bites tongue)
[21:34:07] Jack Sondergaard: now that we have voice in SL we could act and read it out, maybe sometime
[21:34:18] Ina Centaur: (blood has that iron-like taste to it, eh, harman? )
[21:34:24] ToryLynn Writer: Rearden (who is married, so it would only be a torrid love affair), Ellis Wyatt.. who she would respect for his power… and Dan Conway.. who she can help onto his feet
[21:34:28] Harman Mayo: just need to find 38 people to play the parts
[21:34:31] Ina Centaur: oh want to try acting it right now?
[21:34:51] ToryLynn Writer: I’m not fond of voice for discussion groups.. voice tends to silence some people
[21:35:05] Ina Centaur: ah but tory, Dan’s quit
[21:35:15] Harman Mayo: yes - and encourage others
[21:35:17] ToryLynn Writer: he’s quit his businesss.. not his life
[21:35:20] ToryLynn Writer: ok..
[21:35:23] Ina Centaur: and he’s just lost it. he realizes he can’t fight when they’d just put down another Super-Anti-Bad-Dog Rule
[21:35:30] ToryLynn Writer: I’m off… have a nice evening
[21:35:42] Ina Centaur: interesting though..
[21:36:11] Ina Centaur: well…
[21:36:45] Ina Centaur: it might be fun to act out Atlas Shrugged
[21:36:55] Ina Centaur: dunno record and simulcast/stream Galt’s speech
[21:36:56] Ina Centaur:
[21:37:11] Ina Centaur: oh yes.. and get PN or whatever to hack the grid so that it takes over everyone’s media streams ;-P
[21:39:11] Harman Mayo: hmm - an interesting proposition
[21:39:19] Jack Sondergaard: just found on IMDB that a movie version has been announced with Angelina Jolie playing Dagney Taggert
[21:39:27] Ina Centaur: yup
[21:39:31] Ina Centaur: brad pitt = john galt
[21:39:34] Ina Centaur: hawtness ;-P\
[21:39:58] Harman Mayo: ugh - never cared fot Pitt
[21:40:46] Ina Centaur: oh but he’s actually a decent actor
[21:40:55] Ina Centaur: well…
[21:41:19] Harman Mayo: nore a Kevin Costner fan
[21:41:22] Ina Centaur: interesting parts at least.. Louis in Interview… the other personality in FIght Club ;-P
[21:41:24] Harman Mayo: more
[21:41:26] Ina Centaur: oh hercules?
[21:42:38] Harman Mayo: i like the postman best
[21:42:51] Harman Mayo: despte the critics
[21:43:28] Ina Centaur: hmm haven’t seen that one..
[21:43:34] Harman Mayo: but that’s way off topic - even for me
[21:44:10] Ina Centaur: yes true. i guess that’s it for today’s discussion i guess…