[20:07:46] Ina Centaur: lol
[20:07:54] Ina Centaur: so how about this… something closer to home
[20:07:57] Jordana McMahon: <–thinking
[20:08:04] Ina Centaur: we have cheap mexican labor. this helps us get cheap food and cheap houses.
[20:08:15] Lauren Weyland: ‘while grace looks up cubits’
[20:08:19] Lauren Weyland: we continue
[20:08:20] Ina Centaur: also, cheap labor is actually what the mexicans want
[20:08:26] Lauren Weyland: Ok Ina
[20:08:31] Lauren Weyland: Glad you brought that up
[20:08:34] Ina Centaur: the dollar can buy a whole lot in their home country
[20:08:37] Lauren Weyland: ready for a side salvo
[20:08:48] Ina Centaur: it’s a different set of values for both the US and Mexicans
[20:09:02] Ina Centaur: it’s almost a mutualism… if not for…
[20:09:11] Ina Centaur: people who think their jobs are getting stolen by these Mexicans…
[20:09:19] Ina Centaur: people who… also reap in the benefits of cheap labor
[20:09:23] Lauren Weyland: Ok…a whole bunch of Americans…sit around saying,,”oh my I am an environmentalist..Al Gore and Michael Moore”
[20:09:33] Lauren Weyland: and yet…go to there homes..
[20:09:37] Lauren Weyland: turn something over.
[20:09:46] Lauren Weyland: did they ever read Upton Sinclair
[20:09:48] Lauren Weyland: I think not
[20:09:53] Lauren Weyland: or they would know
[20:09:56] Lauren Weyland: the slave shops
[20:10:03] Ina Centaur: so?
[20:10:03] Lauren Weyland: the women indentured
[20:10:09] Lauren Weyland: the pollution and crap
[20:10:14] Ina Centaur: so, they know this. we all know about nike and sweat shops
[20:10:16] Lauren Weyland: as they look below and see
[20:10:21] Lauren Weyland: Made In China
[20:10:32] Lauren Weyland: and today Russia seized the North Pole
[20:10:37] Lauren Weyland: how delightful is that
[20:10:41] Ina Centaur: but yet… we can’t resist not owning a pair of Nikes… not because they’re better than Reeboks… but just because there is some sort of appeal that pulls us in despite its evils
[20:10:42] Lauren Weyland: claimed it’all Theres
[20:10:43] Ina Centaur: what is that?
[20:11:01] Lauren Weyland: read the new…Russia just captured Santa Claus
[20:11:06] Lauren Weyland: news
[20:11:22] Lauren Weyland: yeah…well I am as bad as all
[20:26:09] Lauren Weyland: mee to…sorry I was so ….like beligerant… but I’m crazy on this one
[20:26:18] Lauren Weyland: later all
[20:26:24] Ina Centaur: bye L
[20:26:28] Lauren Weyland: thank you for lettting me enjoy
[20:26:30] Jordana McMahon: the people I know think I am smart but I am so much less so than you all
[20:27:17] Ina Centaur: (hi harman)
[20:27:23] Jordana McMahon: well look who is here
[20:27:27] Harman Mayo: (hi)
[20:27:33] Jordana McMahon: someone to lighten the mood
[20:27:50] Ina Centaur: quite definitely.
[20:28:04] Ina Centaur: i suppose i will now be known as an exploiter because i don’t believe we should destroy the pyramids or Nike.
[20:28:14] Jordana McMahon: not to me
[20:28:22] Jordana McMahon: its all good
[20:28:32] Ina Centaur: lol jordana
[20:28:46] Nakaima Oh: You could split the differendce and just throw away your shoes.
[20:28:55] Jordana McMahon: lol
[20:28:56] Ina Centaur: hmm
[20:29:03] Ina Centaur: but i like my shoes
[20:29:08] Nakaima Oh: kidding
[20:29:14] Ina Centaur: hehehe
[20:29:27] Grace McDunnough: Nice group tag Harman
[20:29:37] Harman Mayo: yeah - keep the shoes - ditch the pyramids
[20:29:46] Ina Centaur: oh harman, you’re a hoot ;-P
[20:29:57] Harman Mayo: they haven’t had decent plumbing in eons
[20:29:59] Grace McDunnough: no. LOOTer
[20:30:03] Ina Centaur: yup
[20:30:07] Ina Centaur: total hoot!
[20:30:09] Grace McDunnough: LOL
[20:30:19] Ina Centaur: >.<
[20:31:10] Jordana McMahon: well were there sparks between Dagny and whatshisname
[20:31:12] Ina Centaur: well, so we were discussing chapter 4 and its choppy dissymmetry…
[20:31:25] Ina Centaur: how the chapter title is not totally evident in all parts
[20:31:33] Ina Centaur: and we digressed on the pyramids…
[20:31:41] Ina Centaur: whether they should be destroyed because they were built due to slave labor
[20:32:00] Ina Centaur: i would argue that the person who commissioned the pyramids is an “immovable mover”
[20:32:08] Grace McDunnough: Aye
[20:32:09] Ina Centaur: that.. even if plague killed the slaves, he’d have it built
[20:32:22] Grace McDunnough: “She” Ina
[20:32:23] Ina Centaur: but… curious about your perspective, Harman
[20:33:03] Ina Centaur: just like how the US is being politically correct wrecking western buildings to recreate reservations for Indians… should Egypt wreck their pyramids and turn them into slave memorials? o_O
[20:33:31] Ina Centaur: lol sorry.. that’s stilted. i meant.. should things built by slaves be destroyed, now that it is more or less a global consensus that slavery is wrong
[20:33:33] [SLDonate] DarkGlass Tip Bin: Thank you for your generous donation, Grace McDunnough!
[20:34:05] Harman Mayo: those who forget their past are doomed to repeat it
[20:34:22] Ina Centaur: mmm ty grace o_O did i make you spit more coffee across the room >.<
[20:34:37] Grace McDunnough: /me smirks
[20:34:43] Harman Mayo: i think that art has intrinsic worth - even if i may not care forr how it was produced
[20:34:50] Jordana McMahon: won’t they forget if they don’t have the pyramids
[20:34:56] Ina Centaur: (hi Rupert)
[20:35:07] Rupert Attenborough: hi
[20:35:37] Harman Mayo: all kidding aside - it’s a moot point
[20:36:08] Harman Mayo: the pyramids are a source of revenue to the country, so they won’t be destroyed
[20:36:24] Ina Centaur: lol
[20:37:02] Ina Centaur: so anyway, back to chapter 4…
[20:37:20] Harman Mayo: yes - the plot thickens!
[20:37:27] Ina Centaur: i think i like how in Rand’s world, the heroes are lucky enough to always find competent workers
[20:37:50] Grace McDunnough: That is utopia
[20:37:53] Ina Centaur: and they would never resort to slave labor because their competitors are far far behind
[20:38:14] Ina Centaur: and it’s never about having the one advantage to step ahead
[20:38:23] Nakaima Oh: But probably the majority of workers are competent
[20:38:28] Ina Centaur: >.< oy…
[20:40:05] Ina Centaur: well, the plot thickens
[20:40:24] Ina Centaur: ok i can’t seem to drop the pyramid topic… but… i think it also manifests itself in chapter 4 in another way
[20:40:39] Ina Centaur: Conway is broken by his slaves
[20:40:46] Ina Centaur: in a way, i guess
[20:40:47] Ina Centaur: “slaves”
[20:42:30] Harman Mayo: arguably - most people are “wage slaves”
[20:43:48] Ina Centaur: yes
[20:44:01] Ina Centaur: and sorry what i mentioned about conway doesn’t quite follow
[20:44:38] Ina Centaur: it’s sad that they’re forcing him to dismantle his rails
[20:45:08] Grace McDunnough: It’s sad that he chose not to fight
[20:45:24] Grace McDunnough: More sad, in my opinion, actually
[20:45:28] Ina Centaur: but who would he be fighting against?
[20:45:50] Ina Centaur: and if he fought… wouldn’t they just put down another Super-Anti-Bad-Dog Rule?
[20:45:57] Grace McDunnough: Yes, well there we go with the “establishment” discussion
[20:46:42] Ina Centaur: yes..
[20:47:31] Ina Centaur: so ..
[20:47:37] Ina Centaur: enslvement is about users and the used
[20:47:43] Ina Centaur: (exploiters and the exploited…)
[20:48:02] Ina Centaur: in Rand’s world, the heroes are being used… enslaved in that sense
[20:48:52] Grace McDunnough: Interesting, because Dagny’s downfall is that she thinks she can be successful by forcing her will on others .. enslaving them, in a way
[20:49:05] Ina Centaur: and, when their usefulness becomes a danger… you have “slaves”l like conway being disposed of
[20:49:24] Ina Centaur: no, it’s not her will, per se… it’s her idealism. she believes in the good in people
[20:49:37] Ina Centaur: like rearden, almost, she assigns a benevolent intent even when an action can have only malicious intent