[20:44:12] ToryLynn Writer: it can’t be a coincidence when he mentions McNamara
[20:44:25] Noumenal Seesaw: nothing in this book is coincidental!
[20:44:25] Ina Centaur: right again, tory
[20:44:37] Ina Centaur: yes, Rand has almost perfect control of everything.
[20:44:49] Ina Centaur: everything in Atlas Shrugged happens for a reason…
[20:44:56] Ina Centaur: from events… to people’s appearances… to settings
[20:44:59] Ina Centaur: … even the weather!
[20:45:01] Noumenal Seesaw: most good mystery novels are written this way
[20:45:06] ToryLynn Writer: I think I need a very good piece of paper and to start making a list of people mentioned and charater names
[20:45:08] Grace McDunnough: every word, has a purpose
[20:45:29] Ina Centaur: (it’s kinda also what makes novel writing fun. you get to limitlessly create your own world.)
[20:45:32] ToryLynn Writer: hehe.. the butcher knife in the cutting board in chapter 1….
[20:45:38] ToryLynn Writer: that’s true too
[20:46:07] Ina Centaur: oh yes.. we should check on that 38 characters thing Lauren mentioned
[20:46:17] Noumenal Seesaw: what’s that?
[20:46:30] ToryLynn Writer: there are 38 characters in the book
[20:46:43] ToryLynn Writer: Lauren was mentioning that 38 is very powerful judiac number
[20:47:02] Noumenal Seesaw: hmmm…i don’t know if AR was into numerology
[20:47:09] Ina Centaur: me either, actually
[20:47:19] ToryLynn Writer: well..she mentioned that Rand was Jewish
[20:47:20] Ina Centaur: would have assumed she’s nonpartisan, non-religious, etc
[20:47:46] Noumenal Seesaw: she was never a practicing jew, although her family was of jewish descent
[20:48:57] Ina Centaur: i think we’d get to verify the 38 character count as we read through the novel
[20:49:24] Ina Centaur: maybe 38 might just be a coincidence
[20:49:41] Ina Centaur: but anyhow… what else is of note from Chapter 3?
[20:50:20] Harman Mayo: hmm - there’s definitely trouble in the workd for Reardon
[20:50:43] Ina Centaur: what do you think would happen to Rearden
[20:50:45] Ina Centaur: and how might he respond?
[20:50:47] Harman Mayo: his bought man in washington hasn’t stayed bought
[20:51:08] ToryLynn Writer: I think I”ll start a notecard and start sticking in names with V, H, and E markers
[20:51:52] ToryLynn Writer: It just confirms that Taggart is a controlling sleeze
[20:52:20] Harman Mayo: Reardon is oblivious to the “power of the people”
[20:52:34] Ina Centaur: (hehe. yes i tried doing that VHE-identification the first time i read this. a lot of my V’s turned into H’s and E’s into V’s o_O )
[20:52:49] Harman Mayo: so he’s going to be blindsided
[20:53:08] ToryLynn Writer: (well.. that would be interesting to see the transition then)
[20:53:21] ToryLynn Writer: (maybe I’ll use one of my students’ graphic organizers
[20:53:43] Ina Centaur: (hehehe)
[20:53:57] Ina Centaur: harman, do you think Rearden is oblivious to the power of the people?
[20:54:07] ToryLynn Writer: I think Rearden will believe that he is above reproach… how can he be at fault for using his own resources.. not using up somebody else’s?
[20:54:07] Ina Centaur: like Dagny, he realizes that “men in Washington” are necessary (although crummy)
[20:54:18] Harman Mayo: i used quotes intentionally
[20:54:36] Harman Mayo: the government claims to represent the people
[20:55:41] Ina Centaur: yes “claims”
[20:56:35] Ina Centaur: well, i don’t think Rearden is all that arrogant… he just can’t see why anyone would want to harm him especially when he’s the only one who’s delivering steel and other major resources on time
[20:57:07] Ina Centaur: .. hence he doesn’t see a need to invest in “soldiers” in washington and PR
[20:57:10] Ina Centaur: (brb)
[20:57:15] ToryLynn Writer: /me purses he lips together to not talk about chapter 4
[20:57:21] ToryLynn Writer: I need to stop reading a head
[20:57:57] ToryLynn Writer: /me stands and stretches
[20:58:02] ToryLynn Writer: ok.. it’s been 2 hours and I’m exhausted
[20:58:04] Jordana McMahon: I’m taking off see you tomorrow
[20:58:14] Noumenal Seesaw: 2 hours?
[20:58:17] Grace McDunnough: / Good night Tory, Jordana
[20:58:18] Noumenal Seesaw: was I an hour late?
[20:58:30] Noumenal Seesaw: when does it start usually?
[20:58:33] ToryLynn Writer: 8
[20:58:39] Noumenal Seesaw: 8 pacific?
[20:58:40] Grace McDunnough: I think 8 now Noumenal
[20:58:45] ToryLynn Writer: I won’t make tomorrow’s meeting so a few comments… before I go
[20:58:46] Kiz Flanagan: 8 slt
[20:58:52] ToryLynn Writer: NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR
[20:58:53] Kiz Flanagan: slt = GMT-8
[20:58:57] ToryLynn Writer: ok.. s’all I have to say
[20:58:58] Grace McDunnough: LOL
[20:59:02] Grace McDunnough: Tory … just wait
[20:59:11] Harman Mayo: lol@Tory
[20:59:25] Harman Mayo: sleep well
[20:59:30] Noumenal Seesaw: well nice to meet you all
[20:59:30] ToryLynn Writer: thanks Harman
[20:59:46] Grace McDunnough: Nice to meet you Noumenal
[20:59:50] ToryLynn Writer: I’ll catch up with the convo by Sunday and be back at 8 on Sunday?
[20:59:53] Noumenal Seesaw: bye
[21:00:04] Grace McDunnough: TC Tory
[21:00:15] Harman Mayo: I’ll be absent tomorrow as well, i believe
[21:00:50] Harman Mayo: but if i get back in time i’ll log in
[21:02:11] Harman Mayo: I know It won’t be 8 SLT though - but maybe 9-9:30 ish
[21:02:58] Grace McDunnough: The good thing is, even if you don’t make it - you can catch up via the chat logger
[21:03:33] Harman Mayo: true
[21:03:56] Harman Mayo: but can’t play devil’s advocate remotely
[21:04:01] Grace McDunnough: true
[21:05:47] Ina Centaur: (back)
[21:06:00] Grace McDunnough: welcome back
[21:06:03] Ina Centaur: oh.. but you can poke the person who said whatever on the chat log ;-P
[21:06:16] Harman Mayo: hehehe
[21:06:33] Harman Mayo: might - np - probably will
[21:07:07] Harman Mayo: I do love a lively discussion
[21:07:12] Ina Centaur: hmm i should update the time on the Blog…
[21:07:20] Harman Mayo: yes
[21:07:20] Ina Centaur: sec.
[21:09:02] Ina Centaur: ok, so let’s continue?
[21:09:08] Grace McDunnough: Yes
[21:09:20] Ina Centaur: /me wonders when damian would un-away o_O
[21:10:02] Grace McDunnough: Actually, I’m losing my focus
[21:10:34] Grace McDunnough: Thank you Ina, and everyone else.
[21:10:45] Grace McDunnough: Will see you tomorrow, I trust.
[21:10:53] Grace McDunnough: Good night
[21:10:59] Ina Centaur: yes, ty grace. nite
[21:12:03] Damian Stonewall: LOL
[21:12:04] Damian Stonewall: I’m here.
[21:12:06] Ina Centaur: /me pokes harman… got another interesting non-orthodox interpretation of chapter 3?
[21:12:17] Damian Stonewall: I just didn’t have time to read the chapter because I am always, always working.
[21:12:32] Damian Stonewall: Hoping to hold on to the log until I’ve caught up.
[21:14:13] Damian Stonewall: Here’s hoping one day I’ll leave Lagsvillle.
[21:14:32] Damian Stonewall: à la prochaine!
[21:14:39] Harman Mayo: hmm - not really
[21:15:04] Harman Mayo: chapter 3 is more a bridge for future events
[21:15:19] Kiz Flanagan: Nonrelevent, but I do like the imagery of the bar in chapter three - made to look like a cellar, while 60 stories up; used to plot very low business deals.
[21:16:09] Ina Centaur: relevant, kiz
[21:16:28] Ina Centaur: it’s rand’s usage of imagary
[21:16:28] Harman Mayo: most of the deals in Washington are struck in pubs and on golf courses
[21:16:40] Ina Centaur: settings and such
[21:16:57] Ina Centaur: lol interesting, harman
[21:17:13] Harman Mayo: experience
[21:17:27] Ina Centaur: hmm golf courses … never do occur in A.S…
[21:17:54] Harman Mayo: that’s probably because of the sex of the author
[21:18:16] Kiz Flanagan: Ayn Rand would never think it proper for a woman to step foot on a golf course, true.
[21:18:17] Harman Mayo: she didn’t know how important they are as a meeting place
[21:18:17] Kiz Flanagan: lmao
[21:19:03] Harman Mayo: more deals are cut on the golf course than in boardrooms
[21:19:24] Ina Centaur: lol…
[21:19:39] Ina Centaur: (golf is actually the only sport i’m good at >.< )
[21:19:51] Ina Centaur: hmm… and as for properness
[21:20:04] Ina Centaur: i don’t think rand would care much on that — properness based on gender
[21:20:20] Ina Centaur: she has Dagny running trains and doing deals with steel mills, for one
[21:20:47] Ina Centaur: very un-womanly… not to mention Dagny going for VP of a major corp
[21:21:37] Kiz Flanagan: I’m talking about her from a feminist viewpoint of course, she having stated that she didn’t believe women to be psychologically qualified to be the president of a country.
[21:22:19] Ina Centaur: wow, i didn’t know that..
[21:22:36] Ina Centaur: i would have assumed she’d argue tradition would have prevented it.. rather than “psychologically qualified”
[21:23:02] Harman Mayo: I can understand her making that statement
[21:23:30] Ina Centaur: then again, Rand can easily be accused of a bunch of things.. her affair with Nat B for one… but, i think her novels are great (even if she might not have been that great of a person…).
[21:23:51] Ina Centaur: oh btw… i wonder if Nat Taggart was named after Nat B
[21:23:57] Kiz Flanagan: She held a belief that women were made to be chained to men - very antifeminist.
[21:25:45] Ina Centaur: interesting… and yet her female heroes are often seen as equivalents of her male heroes
[21:28:19] Kiz Flanagan: Well, taking the Dagny example I disagree - thought this is getting ahead of chapter 3.
[21:28:22] Ina Centaur: hmm, but i think — from her fiction, at least — there’s a missing clause
[21:28:36] Ina Centaur: dagny doesn’t get chained to Frisco or Rearden… but does to Galt
[21:28:45] Ina Centaur: *chained to the “right” man … i guess o_O
[21:28:59] Ina Centaur: (and, in Rand’s personal life… i guess the “right” man wasn’t Frank.. .but Nat)
[21:29:11] Kiz Flanagan: Throughout, she is constantly submissive to gifts, praise from reardon,
[21:29:29] Kiz Flanagan: and in all her sexual encounters, she is subjected to brutality.
[21:29:29] Ina Centaur: oh hey, just 3 of us.. and ayn rand’s 1-prim avatar >.< … we’ve all read; no spoiler danger ;-P
[21:29:32] Harman Mayo: i think she was a product of her environment
[21:30:00] Kiz Flanagan: Ayn Rand’s female characters, I would say, are all strong UNTIL THEY GET RAPED.
[21:30:06] Kiz Flanagan: Which I think says something about the lady.
[21:30:24] Harman Mayo: Rand, i mean
[21:30:56] Ina Centaur: well, it’s not an unbreakable chain…
[21:31:10] Ina Centaur: recall that Rearden and Francisco both rape Dagny.. but she leaves both of them
[21:31:20] Ina Centaur: it’s more like… a bond? o_O
[21:31:37] Harman Mayo: Luke and Laura!
[21:32:09] Harman Mayo: sorry - a throwback to my college days
[21:32:46] Kiz Flanagan: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/mozart.html
[21:33:11] Kiz Flanagan: Had that bookmarked, just remembered it - have been waiting for a situation where Ayn Rand came up to link to it!
[21:33:12] Kiz Flanagan: lol
[21:33:34] Kiz Flanagan: “Mozart was a red!: A Morality Play In One Act by Murray N. Rothbard”
[21:34:38] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:34:46] Ina Centaur: /me goes to skim page. brb.
[21:36:55] Kiz Flanagan: np
[21:39:58] Ina Centaur: funny
[21:40:12] Harman Mayo: omg! - what an amazing piece
[21:40:19] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:40:28] Kiz Flanagan: lmao
[21:40:41] Ina Centaur: i’ve never heard Nat… but interesting that Rand managed to leak her accent all over o_O
[21:41:28] Harman Mayo: that odten happens in followers
[21:43:01] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:43:21] Harman Mayo: I know I spoke with a southern drawl when i was associated with Ziglar
[21:43:59] Harman Mayo: was embarrasing when it was pointed out to me
[21:45:21] Ina Centaur: more parody if you’re up for that http://www.mskousen.com/Books/Articles/shrugged.html
[21:45:28] Harman Mayo: thanks kiz
[21:45:35] Ina Centaur: lol tnx kiz ;-P
[21:45:52] Ina Centaur: oh harman.. i wonder why native speakers of.. say French.. often can’t get over their French accents
[21:46:23] Ina Centaur: guess they just have to follow some american english-speaking cult? o_O
[21:46:46] Kiz Flanagan: LOL
[21:46:55] Kiz Flanagan: I never understood that
[21:47:36] Kiz Flanagan: I lost much of my irish accent just going to college in the USA; it seems like when working within one language, accents are interchangeable - maybe it’s harder when going out of one language into another.
[21:49:08] Kiz Flanagan: It also depends on who you learn a language from - if you are a czech native speaker and wish to learn english, and you learn it from your cousin Yivgny in New York, you will have a stereotypical accent; should you learn it from a language teacher at some presigeous institute, you will have a natural accent.
[21:49:40] Harman Mayo: I agree,Kiz
[21:50:20] Harman Mayo: I speak japanese well enough - but i learned it from Japanese student in my dorm
[21:50:51] Ina Centaur:
[21:51:06] Harman Mayo: my french, however, is atrociuos
[21:51:27] Harman Mayo: almost as bad as my typing
[21:51:44] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:51:48] Ina Centaur: my french is pretty bad too
[21:52:03] Kiz Flanagan: My french is ok, it’s the rest of the EU languages I have a hard time picking up.
[21:52:14] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:52:18] Kiz Flanagan: Dutch especially.
[21:52:27] Ina Centaur: yes.
[21:52:28] Kiz Flanagan: I really don’t like that language!
[21:52:36] Ina Centaur: netherlandsque is very confusing
[21:52:51] Harman Mayo: i can’t handle dutch - and russian is even worse
[21:53:42] Ina Centaur: lol
[21:54:07] Harman Mayo: but my german is passable - although rusty - I haven’t lived there in nearly 30 years
[21:55:15] Kiz Flanagan: Ugh, I can’t speak german for Scheiße
[21:55:23] Ina Centaur: oh you lived in germany in the 70s…
[21:55:25] Ina Centaur: berlin wall days
[21:55:31] Ina Centaur: hmm young enough to be a graffiti artist? ;-P
[21:55:39] Kiz Flanagan: lol
[21:55:45] Harman Mayo: hmm - this is the furthest off-topic we’ve been yet, Sorry, Ina ;(
[21:56:02] Kiz Flanagan: My fault as usual
[21:56:16] Ina Centaur: hehe. refusal to answer accepted ;-P
[21:56:16] Harman Mayo: i had a hand in it, though
[21:56:41] Harman Mayo: i was in bavaria
[21:56:43] Kiz Flanagan: Then, let the record show that I pass all blame on to you.
[21:56:50] Harman Mayo: only visited Berlin once
[21:57:13] Ina Centaur: (lol)
[21:58:50] Ina Centaur: well, i guess i’ll end the discussions on A.S. for the night.