[19:05:44] Lauren Weyland: my favorite line in Chapter two
[19:05:46] Lauren Weyland: was
[19:05:53] Lauren Weyland: words were a lens to focus one’s mind
[19:06:04] Ina Centaur: hi qunta, woody, snow, lauren, and isabell
[19:06:08] Ina Centaur: *quanta
[19:06:19] Quanta Torok: Hello
[19:06:23] Ina Centaur: yes, let’s start with that line…
[19:06:38] Ina Centaur: it actually relates to “theme” of chapter 2
[19:06:45] Ina Centaur: the idea of focus
[19:06:53] Ina Centaur: explicitly identifying something
[19:06:55] Robin Ochs: And the chain
[19:07:13] Ina Centaur: yes
[19:07:40] Snow Woodget: Are we starting now? I wanted to clarify - the sliterary notice said 9pm for the nightly meeting. Should an update go out?
[19:07:56] Lauren Weyland: all through the chapter I noticed Reardon was thinking one thing and saying a different thing until the end. And I thought his mother was a shit
[19:08:14] Robin Ochs: And his wife is oblivious to his drive
[19:08:19] Lauren Weyland: yes
[19:08:38] Lauren Weyland: his wife is shallow but at least a bit polite compared to his mother
[19:08:41] Ina Centaur: yes i should probably post a 9 PM update… i posted an 8 PM event notice
[19:08:57] Lauren Weyland: I relate to Reardon. I feel him in me
[19:09:05] Snow Woodget: Ah, I see. I was only looking at the notecard on the group notice. Didn’t see the other.
[19:09:05] Ina Centaur: we can basically start anytime… and others can join in by reading the transcript
[19:09:25] Lauren Weyland: I can only stay another 21 minutes
[19:09:36] Lauren Weyland: or till Dec 10th
[19:09:41] Ina Centaur: oh, actualy Lillian is quite attuned to Rearden’s drive
[19:09:57] Ina Centaur: you’d find later on that his family actually controls him…
[19:09:58] Robin Ochs: hi sweethot
[19:10:05] Lauren Weyland: yes attuned but not in love
[19:10:22] Ina Centaur: she knows how to manipulate him.. quite perfectly
[19:10:44] Robin Ochs: but you know I found the book is more about the toleration of mediocity
[19:10:46] Lauren Weyland: I will say this. I understand because I would work to be away from the family that drove me. But I also loved what I did as well
[19:11:13] Robin Ochs: And Reardon can’t come to grips with that type of behavior
[19:11:14] Ina Centaur: (in)toleration (?)
[19:11:34] Ina Centaur: actually, i’d say it’s more than mediocrity
[19:11:34] Lauren Weyland: well…toleration in ….not caring enough to be bothered
[19:11:47] Ina Centaur: it’s more like… a desire to *be* mediocre
[19:11:56] Robin Ochs: Don’t ya think we kind of breeding a similar world these days
[19:12:15] Lauren Weyland: i have one question. Why does the mother live there? She can live anywhere Hank ponders
[19:12:29] Robin Ochs: Isn’t back to control?
[19:12:38] Lauren Weyland: mom and philip should move…
[19:13:01] Lauren Weyland: and Larkin a nice guy is then painted as a loser
[19:13:25] Ina Centaur: yes, and it’s explicitly mentioned that Rearden would financially support her mother anywhere she chooses
[19:13:30] Ina Centaur: whether it’s some mansion or an entire island
[19:13:37] Ina Centaur: but yet his family chooses to stay with him
[19:13:51] Lauren Weyland: exactly…but he should tell her to leave. She doesn’t love him or like him
[19:14:03] Ina Centaur: this fact will later be one of the many elements of a revelation that Rearden discovers
[19:14:03] Robin Ochs: Do you think they subconciously recognize his greatness
[19:14:16] Lauren Weyland: but I understand. I was married for a long time to someone who didn’t love me and barely liked me
[19:14:26] Lauren Weyland: no robin…I don’t
[19:14:44] Ina Centaur: no, it’s not quite like a loveless marriage
[19:14:49] Lauren Weyland: I think they are so mediocre they just like his money…not his success
[19:14:50] Robin Ochs: so, it’s the hate love thing?
[19:15:01] Ina Centaur: as a hint.. hopefully not a spoiler… Rand will paint the relationship between Rearden and family as more of a “power possession”
[19:15:14] Ina Centaur: lauren, it’s not about “money” per se…
[19:15:21] Ina Centaur: remember how rearden just gives his brother the 10k?
[19:15:21] Lauren Weyland: look at that line somewhere that says a man of cultuer
[19:15:32] Lauren Weyland: wouldn’t care about plumbing (something like that
[19:15:38] Ina Centaur: and his family basically doesn’t want his money.. just his time
[19:15:44] Lauren Weyland: and of course the steel mill is all plumbing
[19:16:03] Lauren Weyland: but Reardon is weird when he walks home
[19:16:09] Lauren Weyland: touching the bracelet
[19:16:18] Lauren Weyland: and thinking he doesn’t want to give it to her.
[19:16:29] Lauren Weyland: but he is chained to her too it seems
[19:16:30] Robin Ochs: It is cause he wants his wife to love his dream like he does
[19:16:46] Lauren Weyland: well Then Reardon is an idiot.
[19:16:56] Robin Ochs: no…. he is human
[19:17:14] Lauren Weyland: because he would know his dream cannot be loved by her. He should want her to love him despite his dreams
[19:17:23] Ina Centaur: no… rather, he realizes that Lillian isn’t the wife he holds in his ideal
[19:17:38] Ina Centaur: there’s the passage where Lillian’s image is described
[19:17:45] Lauren Weyland: and he thinks something along those lines when he seems to think things can be ironed out over time
[19:17:51] Ina Centaur: (you’d notice that Rand often has her characters “look like their souls” )
[19:18:04] Lauren Weyland: Yes Ina…..not the wife he idealizes
[19:18:08] Lauren Weyland: like his Metal
[19:18:10] Ina Centaur: lilian is (more or less) described as someone who has the making of an empress, but there’s something missing in her eyes.
[19:18:14] Lauren Weyland: ten years in the making
[19:18:48] Robin Ochs: She doesn’t have that drive that he does
[19:19:09] Robin Ochs: or maybe saddens is a better word
[19:19:15] Ina Centaur: hmm robin, it’s not “drive” per se…
[19:19:16] Ina Centaur: but motive…
[19:19:21] Ina Centaur: Lillian, you’see, has plenty drive…
[19:19:27] Ina Centaur: but different motive…
[19:19:35] Robin Ochs: Oh I think it is drive… He wants things to be
[19:19:50] Ina Centaur: (later on, you’d see her acting as player, attempting to use her husband as a sort of pull-currency. it’s all rather sinister)
[19:20:17] Lauren Weyland: she has a drive for a party on Dec 10th their anniversary
[19:20:19] Ina Centaur: (belated hi to tory!)
[19:20:29] Robin Ochs: I was thinking the drive to create not be a leach
[19:20:32] ToryLynn Writer: be back … I have to help neb with a script and I haven’t read chapter 2 yet so…
[19:20:37] ToryLynn Writer: I will probably be backmk tomorrow
[19:21:33] Ina Centaur: well, we shouldn’t get into Randian semantics yet.. as that’d take us way off course
[19:21:33] Robin Ochs: hey.. I have to go too. RL is calling me. See ya in a couple of days. I have my own forum tomorrow to run. BYE This was great
[19:21:48] Lauren Weyland: bye Robin
[19:21:51] Lauren Weyland: you added alot
[19:21:53] Ina Centaur: but, Rand distinguishes between drive and motive/motive power..
[19:21:56] Lauren Weyland: I hope you come back
[19:22:00] Ina Centaur: hmm ok..
[19:22:38] Ina Centaur: so anyway, i guess we’d get back to the thing we started out with..
[19:22:53] Ina Centaur: the idea of focus
[19:23:04] Lauren Weyland: well actually Ina
[19:23:08] Lauren Weyland: I think you hit it
[19:23:18] Lauren Weyland: but I thought something a little more
[19:23:24] Lauren Weyland: it’s the Power to control Power
[19:23:47] Ina Centaur: yes, so in Rand’s world, the heroes are the ones who know what to do..
[19:23:53] Ina Centaur: the others are ones who blindly stumble around
[19:23:56] Lauren Weyland: Whether force of nature or (as Reardon says he could crush Phil but doesn’t have to)
[19:24:35] Ina Centaur: oh, what do you think of the bit where Phil’s described as this struggling ant, and Rearden could so easily and effortlessly help him?
[19:24:47] Lauren Weyland: yes…Power
[19:25:06] Lauren Weyland: Readon sees the Steel also as a weight easily carried
[19:25:19] Lauren Weyland: he was 14 when he worked in the mills and at 30 owned them
[19:25:37] Lauren Weyland: and then….he wonders why the other mills are still out while his begin to hum
[19:25:44] Lauren Weyland: Power…to control Power
[19:26:09] Ina Centaur: no, it’s not the steel he sees as something easily carried — he realizes that it takes 10 years, time and effort, to make a good product
[19:26:12] Lauren Weyland: and the only person their for the success of pouring Reardon Metal is an anynomous worker
[19:26:17] Ina Centaur: but, it’s something like helping people like Phil or his mother out
[19:26:24] Ina Centaur: 10k is effortlessly to him, etc.
[19:26:37] Lauren Weyland: you know…that worker represent the huddled masses
[19:26:57] Ina Centaur: but, his brother brings up the topic of him being unable to find funds… you would have expected them to have wanted Rearden’s help
[19:27:12] Ina Centaur: their reaction is otherwise… why do you think that’s the case?
[19:27:25] Lauren Weyland: yes….but the time doesnt’ matter. he knew the first day he would control the steel process
[19:27:36] Lauren Weyland: he will never control his family
[19:28:04] Lauren Weyland: so…interesting…who said it sounds like what we have today?
[19:28:35] Ina Centaur: hmm
[19:28:37] Lauren Weyland: (I am most sorry..I must go now since I must go to the mill tomorrow and control the power.
[19:28:48] Ina Centaur: lol…
[19:28:54] Ina Centaur: people always leave when the discussion becomes interesting…
[19:29:10] Lauren Weyland: i could mentally stay for hours
[19:29:21] Lauren Weyland: but my body demands I know all the world at 6am
[19:29:27] Lauren Weyland: and focus
[19:29:30] Lauren Weyland: goodnight all
[19:34:07] Ina Centaur: hmm
[19:34:16] Ina Centaur: snow is catching up on readings…
[19:34:21] Ina Centaur: quanta is still in the dark..
[19:34:26] Snow Woodget: Now catching up on backscroll
[19:34:40] Ina Centaur: blundergroin is raving about the old b
[19:34:50] Ina Centaur: and ravenleigha is lurking in the shadows o_O
[19:35:01] Quanta Torok: No, I haven’t read the book in a long time. I missed last nights meeting and just wanted to check it out.
[19:35:27] Ina Centaur: http://atlasshrugged.inacentaur.com
[19:35:28] Quanta Torok: It is one of my favs though…I know it quite well.
[19:35:33] Ravenleigha Jewell: yes…I am here to listen only for I have not read the book
[19:35:39] Ina Centaur: chat transcripts… and more or less… attempts to summarize each night’s discussion
[19:36:15] Quanta Torok: You said that the theme of chapter two was ‘focus’?
[19:36:28] Ina Centaur: that’s not the main theme
[19:36:46] Ina Centaur: but, i guess it is a motif..
[19:37:45] Ina Centaur: chapter 2 is titled: The Chain
[19:38:18] Quanta Torok: Did he fashion a crude chain as a prototype of his Rearden metal?
[19:38:27] Quanta Torok: To give to Lillian?
[19:38:43] Ina Centaur: there’s the physical chain… which Rearden makes from the first batch of Rearden Metal, his invention that took 10 years to perfect
[19:39:22] Ina Centaur: not a prototype. it’s the first thing made. simultaneously, the first batch is also used for the Taggart rails, which Dagny had ordered in the last chapter
[19:39:50] Ina Centaur: he makes it for the abstract entity he refers to as “wife,” but feels that that person isn’t Lillian (his legal wife)
[19:40:08] Ina Centaur: and, when the chapter walks in on his family life, you get an idea of why
[19:41:01] Quanta Torok: Does he also have a flashback, of sorts? He thinks back over the last 10 years and the effort, and thought put into it?
[19:41:29] Ina Centaur: yes, the flashback helps emphasize the fact that it took effort, in addition to control/purpose and ability to make it possible
[19:42:00] Ina Centaur: and that relates to the earlier topic… the idea of focus. the heroes have plenty of that, but the others — the everymen, the villains… they lack focus. or, if they have a focus, it’s myopic
[19:43:38] Quanta Torok: Isn’t their focus, the everymen
[19:44:30] Ina Centaur: that’s what their focus is manifested as
[19:44:45] Ina Centaur: the villains at least..
[19:45:26] Ina Centaur: the everymen are… less focused. they’d join a political group (say, the soybeans over wheat group) because of hype or whim
[19:46:17] Ina Centaur: they might not have a malevolent intention for blindly believing in a particular notion
[19:46:45] Ina Centaur: they might even believe that it’s right to blindly believe in the tabloid’s, etc.
[19:47:38] Ina Centaur: but, the villains will attempt to use these everymen against the heroes
[19:47:47] Ina Centaur: the everymen are like sheep, in that sense..
[19:48:39] Quanta Torok: I guess that Rand is just showing it rather than explains it outright….that the everymen are dependent on the heroes for jobs etc?
[19:49:05] Quanta Torok: Not ‘dependent’ in anegative sense, but more that heroes are hte ones that create wealth and jobs.
[19:49:55] Ina Centaur: it’s true from one POV… but, then, some “everymen” depend on the villains for jobs
[19:50:52] Quanta Torok: I’m sorry, I haven’t read the book in so long…has Rearden unveiled his plans for the bridge build from Rearden steel yet?
[19:51:09] Ina Centaur: oh… we’re just on Chapter 2, quanta